I believe that the Lord has a very specific plan for each and every one of us, but He has also given us the free will to CHOOSE whether or not we follow His path or not. But I do have a question, for anyone that has seen Fireproof and/or read the book "The Love Dare," it is based on the Christian belief of unconditional love and how loving your spouse is a CHOICE. But is it or is it not true that the Lord has a specific person in our plan that we are supposed to spend our lives with? Does this mean that we can either choose to love or not to love this specific person or does this mean that our spouse has not been predestined?
‘The Elect’- Another word for ‘Saints’ or ‘Set apart ones’- Ones who will believe in Christ, chosen before the foundation of the world. (Ephesians 1:4) Election seems to have the same definition as predestination- as regards to God choosing his Elect before we were made.
The following verses
Ephesians 1:5 (In Love)'he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will'
-So God's will was to set aside certain people for his loving purposes
John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
-It was God the Father's will to 'give' people to his son to the effect of eternal security.
John 10:29 My Father, who has given them [his sheep/elect] to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
-God's will is paramount, and not even man can snatch himself from the hand of the Father.
1 Thessalonians 1:4 For we know, brothers love by God, that he has chosen you,
-Paul speaking to the Thessalonians about his faith in their election/selection by God.
Exodus 33:19 And he said, “I will make all my goodness pass before you and will proclaim before you my name ‘THE LORD’ And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.
Romans 8:28-30 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
I think 'Called' implies that we were 'summoned' rather than we 'personally chose'. As it is said, 'there is no one righteous, no not one' (Romans 3:10-12 quoting Psalms 14:1-3 and Psalm 53:1-3) So how can the unrighteous 'choose' what is righteous? It doesn't make any sense unless someone is 'called' out of unrighteousness to righteousness.
I would like it if someone posted some verses that talk about choice explicitly. As best as I have been able to see in the scriptures- people who 'choose' are ones who have been 'chosen' already.
Now- there appears to be choice as to how we live once we have been called. 'Be holy as I am holy'- 'Love your neighbor as yourself' and all other commandments tell us these things knowing that we can choose to do them or not. John 14:21 says "whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me." So keeping the commandments (a choice) is an action of loving God. I have seen most verses dealing with 'choice' concerning the saints rather than the non-believers.
If you do have scriptures that reference non-believers making choice, please let me know. I want to know what is Godly, scriptural, and correct.
Why does it please God to reveal things to only a select few? As in the case of the parables (Matthew 13:11), God tells his disciples "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given."
Assumedly- all things done by God are for His ultimate pleasure.
What I am having trouble understanding is how mystery is a pleasure of God. I know it is so, but it is difficult to understand the 'why'.
Does anyone have any good examples/scripture regarding this?
- Predestination: Are human beings free to receive Christ or are they predestined to salvation and therefore have no choice?
· This battle has been fought for centuries: “Are we predestined or free.” The conversation started with the writings of St. Augustine, bishop of Hippo in North Africa in the fourth century. It was picked up by John Calvin in the 14th century. And the conversation was further picked up by the anti-Calvinist Jacob Arminius, a contemporary of John Calvin.
· And the essential issue is this: Do we human beings have the ability to receive Christ according to our own free will, or are we so sinful that we cannot possibly trust Christ?
· Today the battle divides over two camps: Calvinism and Arminianism. Those who are strong Calvinists say, “We don’t have the free will to choose Jesus.” Those who strong Arminians say, “Humans do possess the dignity of free will and we can choose Jesus.” And this battle tends to be a very denominationally driven battle. Strong Presbyterians identify with Calvin. Strong Holiness denominations identify with Arminius.
· So let’s back away from the theological dogmaticism for a moment and think about how to approach the problem biblically. The Bible teaches both positions. “So,” you say, “does that mean the Bible teaches an absurd contradiction?” Not at all. The Bible teaches, both, that God sovereignly chose us for salvation, and the Bible teaches that can freely chose salvation as well.
· Let’s think about some of the predestination passages:
o Ephesians 1:4: “He chose us in him before the foundation of the world.”
o Ephesians 1:5: “He predestined us to adoption as sons.”
o Romans 8:29-30: “Those whom he foreknew, these he also predestined to become conformed to the image of his son.” By the way, the term foreknew does not mean that God could look ahead, and see how we would respond, and then choose us based upon our decision. The Greek term prognosko clearly does not mean that; it means an active knowing so as to choose and determine.
o So theses are clear predestination verses. God predestines some to salvation.
· But we also have some clear passages that teach free will.
o John 7:17: Jesus says, “If anyone is willing to do his will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak form myself.”
o Revelation 22:17: Jesus says, “Whosoever wishes to come, let him come.”
o And throughout the Bible there are dozens of cases where the writers appeal to our will to believe. John 3:16 is a case in point: “God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him, shall not perish but have eternal life.” The clear implication is that people are evaluating the claims of Jesus and making free choices.
· So predestination and free will are both taught. What do we do with that? We have to break out of our strong Calvinist and strong Arminian categories and affirm that both are true. And this is where we have to embrace mystery. The infinite God predestines. We finite humans have the capacity to evaluate and respond to the gospel message. The Bible affirms both. We should study what the Bible has to say about both. We should embrace both.
· But then we need to rest in the mystery of it rather than fighting the theology wars. Strong Calvinism is wrong. Strong Arminianism is wrong. The truth lies in affirming both and worshipping the God of mystery.
It seems to me that mysteries are for pondering, not for resting in. It is right and good for us to seek to know God more fully. Phil 3:8 "I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of *knowing* Christ Jesus." Prov. 4:7 "The beginning of wisdom is this: Get wisdom, and whatever yout get, get insight." I realize that theology can be divisive, and that wars have been fought over doctrinal differences, which ought not to be. The difficult questions especially should be addressed with a spirit of gentleness and love - but they should be addressed.
I may have misunderstood what you said about Strong Arminianism, but it sounds like you said Arminianism teaches that we can freely choose God apart from God choosing us. In fact, Arminianism teaches that free will is destroyed by sin, and we cannot seek God without God's gracious calling and enabling us to seek him - Calvinism also teaches this. Unlike Calvinism, however, Arminianism believes that God extends this grace to everyone, and that those who are not saved have rejected God.
This seems to lead directly to another Arminian belief: that once saved, a person may lose their salvation if they stop believing. You taught also at Grace Unscripted that salvation may not be lost - once saved, always saved. So I wonder how you see the relationship of free will and eternal security?
On another note, it seems there were several other blog posts (God and creation, essentials to salvation, unforgivable sin) that are no longer available at the blog. The question of predestination is the only post I see.
Hrmmm... Now that I think about it- Job was conforted as he rested in the mysteries of God- as God chastened him with questions about creation. I don't know if Job spent the rest of his life looking for the solutions to the myteries God presented him with, but it appears, if only for a moment, that Job was content to remain silent in the face of the terrible and awesome mysteries of God.
I still think it's worth it to search out the mysteries though- there are some seriously fantastically wonderful things to know about God- and of all the things that exist, there's really only one person to boast in/about (Jer 9:24 Let him who boasts boast in this, that he understands and knows me)
Difficult to reconcile because we are humans trapped in space and time.
God is above all that and there are some things he tells us that we simply cannot fathom. To the best of my ability, the things that I cannot completely reconcile in scripture, I trust in Him who made us and is above all.
I believe that we can trust Him with our salvation and be secure in Him. I also believe we have a free will and it is important both what we choose and what we say and what we do - more important than we realize even - for the power of life and death is in the tongue - so let's speak life and health to one another and encourage one another in the faith.
God is completely soverign, he has absolute free will within the bounds of his nature and charadter. But god in his soverignty has chosen to give us free will. the two may appear to be mutually exclusive, but they are not due to the fact that we are finite and god is and infinite being. i would argue that "called" means that God persuades us to come to him. we have the freedom to make the choice: we do mot become christians because god forces us into it, but we cannot make the choice unless god reveals his truth to us. God is a God of logic and reason. logic is essentially a consistency of terms and statements. The God is and can only be the being in which logic and reason was derived. so if god is indeed a logical god and created us to operate by reasoning, then it would only make sense that he would appeal to that system by which we make our decisions. after all, all decisions we make are based on logic, whether good or bad. thus god, in his complete soverignty reveals his truth to men and persuades them of the fact that they are sinners and need a savior. men then respond to god's persuasion by making a choice using their free will. this is scriptural because this is the way christ taught, for example, with the pharisees, he began with the truths of the old testament law that they already knew, and argued from there the truths of scriputre. he didnt force the truths on them as he could have, but made arguements that engaged his listeners so deeply from the inside that they all knew the truth, and whether or not they chose christ was their decision. in conclusion, God in his complete soverignty through the revelation of his truth, appeals to our reason to persuade us to repent of our sins and turn to him by faith for salvaion.
Re: cmac What do you make of the scripture below- from Acts 13, when Paul and Barnabas were teaching the people boldly? I tried to find an example analogous to your reference to when Christ was teaching the Pharisees- in as much as people are being exposed to the words of Christ. “And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.”
The emphasis here appears to be on God’s grace in their appointment, not in their free will responses to his grace. It seems to me (in my readings as I earnestly study this) that scripture effuses God’s sovereignty in all of these circumstances.
Do you have any other scripture references to free will that I can study? I agree with you very strongly that God is a God of logic- but I think that logic should always start with propositional truth, namely scripture. Pastor Rod has posted a few verses which I am looking at, but I’d like very much to see others.
Well first I would like to clarify and make sure that our definition of free will is the same to avoid equivocation: when using the phrase "free will" we often fail to remember our basic rules of grammar. "will" is the noun and "free" the adjective so we must define "will" before we can say what it means for a "will" to be "free." this being said, what is a will? It is most easily defined as; the part of the mind that makes decisions, the part of the mind with which someone consciously decides things, or the process by which one makes decisions. Now we may move on to say what we mean by a will being free: it can be free in the libertarian sense which says that nothing outside of you or your previous decisions you have made can determine your next choice. You are absolutely free and can always choose the opposite. This is not at all realistic. If, for example we apply this will to God we see that at any given time, God must be able to choose the opposite, or sin, in order to be free. God does not and cannot sin. Thus, God's will is not libertarian. He is not always free to choose the opposite, he cannot sin and cannot do anything inconsistent with himself, yet he has free will to do whatever he chooses. When applied to us, we see that we are not free unless we can choose something out of God's knowledge. God knows our choices, so to be free we must be able to choose the opposite or choose something outside his knowledge. Thus, libertarian free will cannot be at all the nature of either our free will or God's. In fact, it is contradictory to the intended nature of a will. A will/good choice is intended to be the product of logic and truth. A will cannot exist without a base of reason. REASON DOES NOT MAKE THE WILL NOT FREE: they are inseparable. Thus libertarian free will cannot exist anywhere. So a will must be free in the deterministic sense which would mean that there is ALWAYS a cause to what we choose. In God's case, his will is "determined" by his perfect nature and truth, and in our case, our will is determined by our fallen nature and the truths that we know or have been revealed to us. We are free in the same way God is free: only our nature is finite and imperfect and God's is infinite and perfect. This definition of a "free will" makes the most sense to me. So, abiding by this definition then, we see we cannot make rash and random decisions, ALL decisions are based on reason, whether the reason be foolish, false, or wise and true, there is reason behind all choices. I do not doubt the fact that God calls whomever he will to himself, I think scripture is very clear on that, but from this explanation of our free will, we see that God can choose us and yet we can still have free will. The fallen man is not blind to the moral law of God, it has been written on his heart, and as Romans ch 1 says, he is "without excuse." the fallen man then, makes his decisions based on this truth, but influenced by his nature. For example, the truth he knows is that he shouldn't steal, but the influence of his nature tells him it would be nice to have that____, so his final decision is to steal it. He is here exercising his free will. If God, by his free will according to his nature has chosen to save this man, he then reveals himself to him. This revelation of truth would then be the reason behind the man's decision to come to Christ. Thus the man still had free will and God didn't force him into it, but God was still sovereign in the situation. Examples of this once again can be found in the way that Christ taught; he used parables and analogies so that if people understood him it was because God revealed the truth to them.
I think that when this view of free will is applied to the Acts 13 passage, we see the same thing. God in his sovereignty appointed people to salvation. God then used Paul and barnabus to reveal his truth to them. They then knew the truth of Christ and that truth was the basis of their decision to come to him. One may ask, in the decisions of those that were appointed to salvation, when the truth was revealed, why didn't their sinful nature influence them not to choose God? this is the part where I believe God's logical appeal to our reason comes in. he uses what he will to reveal his truth to us, whether it be nature, a missionary, a vision, etc. then uses that truth to persuade us or as some may put it, "work in our hearts." when we are presented with the perfect reason of God, we can’t help but to come to him, just as if we were to see his glory we couldn’t help but to fall on our faces before him. If we can’t "resist" god's persuasion, then how is it our free will? once again, free will is not libertarian, we don’t have to be able to resist it for it to be free, it is still free will, God's persuasion is simply the reason behind our will, where our sinful nature takes the truth and twists it resulting in a bad choice, God's persuading of our hearts uses the truth we already know to engage us on a level so deep as to lead us to the right choice. This is once again consistent with Christ's teachings. One may also raise the question, why then, was Christ not "successful" in persuading all the Pharisees? The answer is simple. They were not appointed to salvation. Their hearts were hardened and they were going to refuse any argument anyone could make. So it was not that Christ failed, it’s that his argument was not intended to lead them to salvation. I hope this makes my ideas a little clearer as to ensure we are not talking past each other.
I believe that the Lord has a very specific plan for each and every one of us, but He has also given us the free will to CHOOSE whether or not we follow His path or not. But I do have a question, for anyone that has seen Fireproof and/or read the book "The Love Dare," it is based on the Christian belief of unconditional love and how loving your spouse is a CHOICE. But is it or is it not true that the Lord has a specific person in our plan that we are supposed to spend our lives with? Does this mean that we can either choose to love or not to love this specific person or does this mean that our spouse has not been predestined?
ReplyDeleteElection’- Greek ‘eklogē’ -'choice, selection’
ReplyDelete‘The Elect’- Another word for ‘Saints’ or ‘Set apart ones’- Ones who will believe in Christ, chosen before the foundation of the world. (Ephesians 1:4) Election seems to have the same definition as predestination- as regards to God choosing his Elect before we were made.
The following verses
Ephesians 1:5
(In Love)'he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will'
-So God's will was to set aside certain people for his loving purposes
John 6:39
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
-It was God the Father's will to 'give' people to his son to the effect of eternal security.
John 10:29
My Father, who has given them [his sheep/elect] to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
-God's will is paramount, and not even man can snatch himself from the hand of the Father.
1 Thessalonians 1:4
For we know, brothers love by God, that he has chosen you,
-Paul speaking to the Thessalonians about his faith in their election/selection by God.
Exodus 33:19
And he said, “I will make all my goodness pass before you and will proclaim before you my name ‘THE LORD’ And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.
Romans 8:28-30
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
I think 'Called' implies that we were 'summoned' rather than we 'personally chose'. As it is said, 'there is no one righteous, no not one' (Romans 3:10-12 quoting Psalms 14:1-3 and Psalm 53:1-3) So how can the unrighteous 'choose' what is righteous? It doesn't make any sense unless someone is 'called' out of unrighteousness to righteousness.
I would like it if someone posted some verses that talk about choice explicitly. As best as I have been able to see in the scriptures- people who 'choose' are ones who have been 'chosen' already.
Now- there appears to be choice as to how we live once we have been called. 'Be holy as I am holy'- 'Love your neighbor as yourself' and all other commandments tell us these things knowing that we can choose to do them or not. John 14:21 says "whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me." So keeping the commandments (a choice) is an action of loving God. I have seen most verses dealing with 'choice' concerning the saints rather than the non-believers.
If you do have scriptures that reference non-believers making choice, please let me know. I want to know what is Godly, scriptural, and correct.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteWhy does it please God to reveal things to only a select few? As in the case of the parables (Matthew 13:11), God tells his disciples "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given."
ReplyDeleteAssumedly- all things done by God are for His ultimate pleasure.
What I am having trouble understanding is how mystery is a pleasure of God. I know it is so, but it is difficult to understand the 'why'.
Does anyone have any good examples/scripture regarding this?
- Predestination: Are human beings free to receive Christ or are they predestined to salvation and therefore have no choice?
ReplyDelete· This battle has been fought for centuries: “Are we predestined or free.” The conversation started with the writings of St. Augustine, bishop of Hippo in North Africa in the fourth century. It was picked up by John Calvin in the 14th century. And the conversation was further picked up by the anti-Calvinist Jacob Arminius, a contemporary of John Calvin.
· And the essential issue is this: Do we human beings have the ability to receive Christ according to our own free will, or are we so sinful that we cannot possibly trust Christ?
· Today the battle divides over two camps: Calvinism and Arminianism. Those who are strong Calvinists say, “We don’t have the free will to choose Jesus.” Those who strong Arminians say, “Humans do possess the dignity of free will and we can choose Jesus.” And this battle tends to be a very denominationally driven battle. Strong Presbyterians identify with Calvin. Strong Holiness denominations identify with Arminius.
· So let’s back away from the theological dogmaticism for a moment and think about how to approach the problem biblically. The Bible teaches both positions. “So,” you say, “does that mean the Bible teaches an absurd contradiction?” Not at all. The Bible teaches, both, that God sovereignly chose us for salvation, and the Bible teaches that can freely chose salvation as well.
· Let’s think about some of the predestination passages:
o Ephesians 1:4: “He chose us in him before the foundation of the world.”
o Ephesians 1:5: “He predestined us to adoption as sons.”
o Romans 8:29-30: “Those whom he foreknew, these he also predestined to become conformed to the image of his son.” By the way, the term foreknew does not mean that God could look ahead, and see how we would respond, and then choose us based upon our decision. The Greek term prognosko clearly does not mean that; it means an active knowing so as to choose and determine.
o So theses are clear predestination verses. God predestines some to salvation.
· But we also have some clear passages that teach free will.
o John 7:17: Jesus says, “If anyone is willing to do his will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak form myself.”
o Revelation 22:17: Jesus says, “Whosoever wishes to come, let him come.”
o And throughout the Bible there are dozens of cases where the writers appeal to our will to believe. John 3:16 is a case in point: “God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him, shall not perish but have eternal life.” The clear implication is that people are evaluating the claims of Jesus and making free choices.
· So predestination and free will are both taught. What do we do with that? We have to break out of our strong Calvinist and strong Arminian categories and affirm that both are true. And this is where we have to embrace mystery. The infinite God predestines. We finite humans have the capacity to evaluate and respond to the gospel message. The Bible affirms both. We should study what the Bible has to say about both. We should embrace both.
· But then we need to rest in the mystery of it rather than fighting the theology wars. Strong Calvinism is wrong. Strong Arminianism is wrong. The truth lies in affirming both and worshipping the God of mystery.
It seems to me that mysteries are for pondering, not for resting in. It is right and good for us to seek to know God more fully. Phil 3:8 "I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of *knowing* Christ Jesus." Prov. 4:7 "The beginning of wisdom is this: Get wisdom, and whatever yout get, get insight." I realize that theology can be divisive, and that wars have been fought over doctrinal differences, which ought not to be. The difficult questions especially should be addressed with a spirit of gentleness and love - but they should be addressed.
ReplyDeleteI may have misunderstood what you said about Strong Arminianism, but it sounds like you said Arminianism teaches that we can freely choose God apart from God choosing us. In fact, Arminianism teaches that free will is destroyed by sin, and we cannot seek God without God's gracious calling and enabling us to seek him - Calvinism also teaches this. Unlike Calvinism, however, Arminianism believes that God extends this grace to everyone, and that those who are not saved have rejected God.
This seems to lead directly to another Arminian belief: that once saved, a person may lose their salvation if they stop believing. You taught also at Grace Unscripted that salvation may not be lost - once saved, always saved. So I wonder how you see the relationship of free will and eternal security?
On another note, it seems there were several other blog posts (God and creation, essentials to salvation, unforgivable sin) that are no longer available at the blog. The question of predestination is the only post I see.
Hrmmm...
ReplyDeleteNow that I think about it-
Job was conforted as he rested in the mysteries of God- as God chastened him with questions about creation. I don't know if Job spent the rest of his life looking for the solutions to the myteries God presented him with, but it appears, if only for a moment, that Job was content to remain silent in the face of the terrible and awesome mysteries of God.
I still think it's worth it to search out the mysteries though- there are some seriously fantastically wonderful things to know about God- and of all the things that exist, there's really only one person to boast in/about (Jer 9:24 Let him who boasts boast in this, that he understands and knows me)
Difficult to reconcile because we are humans trapped in space and time.
ReplyDeleteGod is above all that and there are some things he tells us that we simply cannot fathom. To the best of my ability, the things that I cannot completely reconcile in scripture, I trust in Him who made us and is above all.
I believe that we can trust Him with our salvation and be secure in Him. I also believe we have a free will and it is important both what we choose and what we say and what we do - more important than we realize even - for the power of life and death is in the tongue - so let's speak life and health to one another and encourage one another in the faith.
We can trust God in all matters!
Blessings,
Sandie
God is completely soverign, he has absolute free will within the bounds of his nature and charadter. But god in his soverignty has chosen to give us free will. the two may appear to be mutually exclusive, but they are not due to the fact that we are finite and god is and infinite being. i would argue that "called" means that God persuades us to come to him. we have the freedom to make the choice: we do mot become christians because god forces us into it, but we cannot make the choice unless god reveals his truth to us. God is a God of logic and reason. logic is essentially a consistency of terms and statements. The God is and can only be the being in which logic and reason was derived. so if god is indeed a logical god and created us to operate by reasoning, then it would only make sense that he would appeal to that system by which we make our decisions. after all, all decisions we make are based on logic, whether good or bad. thus god, in his complete soverignty reveals his truth to men and persuades them of the fact that they are sinners and need a savior. men then respond to god's persuasion by making a choice using their free will. this is scriptural because this is the way christ taught, for example, with the pharisees, he began with the truths of the old testament law that they already knew, and argued from there the truths of scriputre. he didnt force the truths on them as he could have, but made arguements that engaged his listeners so deeply from the inside that they all knew the truth, and whether or not they chose christ was their decision. in conclusion, God in his complete soverignty through the revelation of his truth, appeals to our reason to persuade us to repent of our sins and turn to him by faith for salvaion.
ReplyDeleteRe: cmac
ReplyDeleteWhat do you make of the scripture below- from Acts 13, when Paul and Barnabas were teaching the people boldly? I tried to find an example analogous to your reference to when Christ was teaching the Pharisees- in as much as people are being exposed to the words of Christ.
“And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.”
The emphasis here appears to be on God’s grace in their appointment, not in their free will responses to his grace. It seems to me (in my readings as I earnestly study this) that scripture effuses God’s sovereignty in all of these circumstances.
Do you have any other scripture references to free will that I can study? I agree with you very strongly that God is a God of logic- but I think that logic should always start with propositional truth, namely scripture. Pastor Rod has posted a few verses which I am looking at, but I’d like very much to see others.
Regards,
Well first I would like to clarify and make sure that our definition of free will is the same to avoid equivocation: when using the phrase "free will" we often fail to remember our basic rules of grammar. "will" is the noun and "free" the adjective so we must define "will" before we can say what it means for a "will" to be "free." this being said, what is a will? It is most easily defined as; the part of the mind that makes decisions, the part of the mind with which someone consciously decides things, or the process by which one makes decisions. Now we may move on to say what we mean by a will being free: it can be free in the libertarian sense which says that nothing outside of you or your previous decisions you have made can determine your next choice. You are absolutely free and can always choose the opposite. This is not at all realistic. If, for example we apply this will to God we see that at any given time, God must be able to choose the opposite, or sin, in order to be free. God does not and cannot sin. Thus, God's will is not libertarian. He is not always free to choose the opposite, he cannot sin and cannot do anything inconsistent with himself, yet he has free will to do whatever he chooses. When applied to us, we see that we are not free unless we can choose something out of God's knowledge. God knows our choices, so to be free we must be able to choose the opposite or choose something outside his knowledge. Thus, libertarian free will cannot be at all the nature of either our free will or God's. In fact, it is contradictory to the intended nature of a will. A will/good choice is intended to be the product of logic and truth. A will cannot exist without a base of reason. REASON DOES NOT MAKE THE WILL NOT FREE: they are inseparable. Thus libertarian free will cannot exist anywhere. So a will must be free in the deterministic sense which would mean that there is ALWAYS a cause to what we choose. In God's case, his will is "determined" by his perfect nature and truth, and in our case, our will is determined by our fallen nature and the truths that we know or have been revealed to us. We are free in the same way God is free: only our nature is finite and imperfect and God's is infinite and perfect. This definition of a "free will" makes the most sense to me. So, abiding by this definition then, we see we cannot make rash and random decisions, ALL decisions are based on reason, whether the reason be foolish, false, or wise and true, there is reason behind all choices. I do not doubt the fact that God calls whomever he will to himself, I think scripture is very clear on that, but from this explanation of our free will, we see that God can choose us and yet we can still have free will. The fallen man is not blind to the moral law of God, it has been written on his heart, and as Romans ch 1 says, he is "without excuse." the fallen man then, makes his decisions based on this truth, but influenced by his nature. For example, the truth he knows is that he shouldn't steal, but the influence of his nature tells him it would be nice to have that____, so his final decision is to steal it. He is here exercising his free will. If God, by his free will according to his nature has chosen to save this man, he then reveals himself to him. This revelation of truth would then be the reason behind the man's decision to come to Christ. Thus the man still had free will and God didn't force him into it, but God was still sovereign in the situation. Examples of this once again can be found in the way that Christ taught; he used parables and analogies so that if people understood him it was because God revealed the truth to them.
ReplyDeleteI think that when this view of free will is applied to the Acts 13 passage, we see the same thing. God in his sovereignty appointed people to salvation. God then used Paul and barnabus to reveal his truth to them. They then knew the truth of Christ and that truth was the basis of their decision to come to him. One may ask, in the decisions of those that were appointed to salvation, when the truth was revealed, why didn't their sinful nature influence them not to choose God? this is the part where I believe God's logical appeal to our reason comes in. he uses what he will to reveal his truth to us, whether it be nature, a missionary, a vision, etc. then uses that truth to persuade us or as some may put it, "work in our hearts." when we are presented with the perfect reason of God, we can’t help but to come to him, just as if we were to see his glory we couldn’t help but to fall on our faces before him. If we can’t "resist" god's persuasion, then how is it our free will? once again, free will is not libertarian, we don’t have to be able to resist it for it to be free, it is still free will, God's persuasion is simply the reason behind our will, where our sinful nature takes the truth and twists it resulting in a bad choice, God's persuading of our hearts uses the truth we already know to engage us on a level so deep as to lead us to the right choice. This is once again consistent with Christ's teachings. One may also raise the question, why then, was Christ not "successful" in persuading all the Pharisees? The answer is simple. They were not appointed to salvation. Their hearts were hardened and they were going to refuse any argument anyone could make. So it was not that Christ failed, it’s that his argument was not intended to lead them to salvation. I hope this makes my ideas a little clearer as to ensure we are not talking past each other.
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